Curse

Not A Fifty Five · Nov 21, 2006, 02:31 AM // 02:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by DIH49

All that does is change the emphasis on HOW to make money, it doesn't change anything about the nature of economies. Ok, now to make gold you do quests instead of farm (you wouldn't of course, but that's a separate issue) but so what? How has that changed anything, made anything better? There's very very little difference between farming and questing. A GW quest is basically, "Go to place A and kill creature(s) X." That's exactly what farming is. The only difference is that for a quest some NPC gives you a thumbs up at the end. Making quests give more gold wouldn't change a thing, relatively speaking. Oh, an item would cost 60k instead of 50k, but that's about it- a cosmetic change.

It all comes back to the rarity problem. People want to show off, and the only way to do that is if they have something other people don't. Hence, rarity. Making quests give people money is pretty much exactly the same thing that we have now. It's a trivial distinction so why waste the time?

Yup. Except you'd actually do it with other people as opposed to sitting in a bunch of trolsl by yourself. Which is a step forward to cooperative play like GW was meant for.

Antheus · Nov 21, 2006, 02:32 AM // 02:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Not A Fifty Five

Uh. No.

Which means?

Tide to Go · Nov 21, 2006, 02:32 AM // 02:32

O and by the way im fed up with this money issue leave us some peace for awhile ive had none with all these nerphes and updates I mean geez and im a necro i got 3 major builds 2 of them got damaged alittle and soon all three will. Im talking of the ss, 55 nec, and the mm. This isent only happining to the necro eathier XD

actionjack · Nov 21, 2006, 02:36 AM // 02:36

Gold is another mean to sucker player into keep on playing. Can try to take away gold, but need to replace it with something else, if GW still want continues players on their server.

(which actually they don't need, for they already bough the game. But it does make the number look better, and tie them to the future games)

maybe another thread to discusses such ideas...

Antheus · Nov 21, 2006, 02:43 AM // 02:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Not A Fifty Five

Yup. Except you'd actually do it with other people as opposed to sitting in a bunch of trolsl by yourself. Which is a step forward to cooperative play like GW was meant for.

Nope. GW wasn't meant for that.

GW was meant for another thing. To prove yourself.

I farmed for a month. That gave me enough money to start trading. I used money I made from that to make better builds to go after green and gold items. I used this money for the following: To get any armor I want, any weapon I want. To hire runners to get me through missions. To hire spider cap service. To buy ectos for FoW armor. To buy gear for heroes. To buy large ammounts of ale and tickets to advance titles.

Yes, there's a story in GW. It involves Mursaat, Shiro and some other thingies. I watched the cutscenes 18 months ago when I started playing, I skip them every time now.

I group for masters missions, since that's about only part where people make things much easier.

But above all, I use money to say: This is the stuff I did, this is what I have.

It may not be your goal, but this is why people play PvE in GW.

If you prefer grouping, and money is so irrelevant, why does it matter? One thing that matters nothing to me is HA rank. It's worthless and pointless. I prefer other PvP styles. So whatever they do with rank, I don't care. I don't want it, don't need it, and if I choose to play HA, I get people who will ignore my low rank.

And farming is the absolutely slowest way to make money. Especially killing trolls. Those places are suitable only for botting, since you need to spend 24/7 to make even moderate ammounts.

Not A Fifty Five · Nov 21, 2006, 02:48 AM // 02:48

Meh. You know what I did to go from 50k to 1 mil in a few hours with one char? I bought end game books for 50k, got about 5 or 6, beat the last mission, sold the greens I got for it for 150-200k, and repeated that.

Money really doesnt prove anything. It proves your a good entrepreneur or an ebay buyer.

Thallandor · Nov 21, 2006, 03:00 AM // 03:00

Woah the game the OP described just sounded like this game i know that doesnt exist cause it wont sell:

Hello Kitty Island Adventures.

Edit i think they use cookies as currency there, i am not sure though..best if you check with butters.

Antheus · Nov 21, 2006, 03:05 AM // 03:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Not A Fifty Five

Meh. You know what I did to go from 50k to 1 mil in a few hours with one char? I bought end game books for 50k, got about 5 or 6, beat the last mission, sold the greens I got for it for 150-200k, and repeated that.

Money really doesnt prove anything. It proves your a good entrepreneur or an ebay buyer.

Exactly. You didn't make money by farming. You made it by being good at the game, using your knowledge to beat the final mission and entire game before most others, knowing the market, using that to your profit.

That is a great achievement. It proves your mastery of every single aspect of the game. What more could you want?

You consider money to be worthless, and to you, it may as well be. But using it, you advance your characters, have money for such endavours, and freedom to do what you want.

It's not about the number in the bank. It's all about what it allows you to do.

And it's not about eBaying. Someone who has no skill and eBays won't be able to do anything with that. They won' beat the game, they won't know how to play the market, they won't be able to help others. They'll have money, but they'll be soon outed. Someone might think that eBaying money will make them something more, but how long will it take till an eBay FoW warrior reveals himself?

So yes, money proves something, even if you never show it around.

Asking for greater rewards, for different goals, different playstyles is search for holy grail. You've done everything there is in the game, and there's nothing left that poses a challenge to you. Hoping for a revamp of game concepts won't change that.

Not A Fifty Five · Nov 21, 2006, 03:13 AM // 03:13

hmm you do have a point

But I do think its a pity that masters quests or challenge missions etc are so hard to form parties for. They're a good part of the game, but nobody does them because they dont lead to primevil or money -.-

Antheus · Nov 21, 2006, 03:29 AM // 03:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Not A Fifty Five

hmm you do have a point

But I do think its a pity that masters quests or challenge missions etc are so hard to form parties for. They're a good part of the game, but nobody does them because they dont lead to primevil or money -.-

Those players aren't interested into that. For many, beating the game is the goal.

I mentioned elsewhere, that GW should go for easier storyline. Let masters and challenge missions be more difficult, and more rewarding. Have more challenge missions. Tie them to titles. More elite missions. Make missions in such a way that they encourage real players for the challenge, not due to some forced requirement. Jade and Urgoz did a decent job at that. If they could be henched, they would have been - for many, that is a challenge in itself. But they encouraged complimentary team builds, specific roles, and in-depth knowledge of every aspect of the dungeons. The fact that at the end you could get a valuable item didn't change this.

As long as there's a direct reward, green items or hero armor, many will do it just because of that. Adding another reward on top of that is also a good way. Everyone does it for their own reason.

The lack of players for challenge missions demonstrates, that removing tangible rewards doesn't solve anything, people would simply stop playing. So, "tricking" them into doing something benefits others. And money is just an abstraction behind this "trick". A universal drive to incite others to get some perceived worth.

One flaw that GW had since launch, is lack of repeatable PvE. You can only do missions so many times, and you can only max out PvE titles so many times before it loses its apeal and becomes grindish routine.

Goonter · Nov 21, 2006, 04:20 AM // 04:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by actionjack

I like your world view, Goonter.

...why tank you so much

I honestly dont like virtual economies though. I suck at real world economy as it is. It would be a damn shame for me to be great in game and then suck in life.
Im trying to think about it and I dont really have a place to attribute value in gws.
If anything, its creating and playing the build, winning the match and most importanly having fun winning or losing (but playing to win) as a team. There isnt a whole lot to show off if you play casually though. (ladder is everything)

soooo... I think i could dream up something for that. but I got some easier answers off the top of my head.

Collectable cashin options just seem, blah. Getting the collectables is a farming activity but it could pay up in ways that could motivate players to want it. I personally dont want anything from collectable items or gear and I dont see many people caring otherwise also.
-Most runes should be able to be gained though collectable npcs.
-Some rare materals
-Inscriptions
-dyes
-Maybe a one time cap sig skill trade in from a trainer/collection npc
-Tickcts to skip world-at-war system into Fow/UW (i keep suggestion something like this)

Titles should pony up some other bonues. I liked how balth faction got a bonus and so did salvaging.
-All collection npcs will give discount requirments to 100% explorers of their chapter. (some better than others)
-Mission titles give some sort of book or amulet type trade in if you get 100%. Perhaps add to the bonues you get from npc collectors in some cases.
-Drunk titles should give /drunk emote option while your drinking
...i cant come up with anything else right now. but getting some specail emotes for titles is a pretty easy fix cuz it can be fun to show off.

...without sounding too generic, adding a lot of armor and other cosmedic options is a must, for the "adventurer" players anyhow.

I think adding much more pvp type gameplay like AB and stuff is good. If there were someway to merge a AB/RA/HA type pvp game (ill come up with one) then it would be great place to one-stop-shop and grind your "money" needs. (the idea would be to forget your grinding and just enjoy pwning the crap out of each other)

Most of this doesnt easily solve the have and have nots of the economy. But it could help it out a bit and maybe help place new emphasis on other things - like exploring the whole area to get a leg up in the economy or showing up drunk and throwing up on your monk. how cool is that?

martialis · Nov 21, 2006, 04:58 AM // 04:58

Quote:

Make "Bling" armour and weapons a reward for completing a quest.

/not signed

It's a wonderful idea, but it won't work. They did it for PvP and that was a success, because the competion is inherent there. It's horrible to say, but the economy, as far as you're describing it: the prices of ectos, gold weapons, and other armours, exists so that people can pwn nubs and show off their you-know-whats. The economy is created solely by players, to allow competion. As proof of this, I refer you to the Crystalline Sword, which is the rarest sword in the game, costs millions of gold, and looks like shit. As long as there is some item: a weapon, a shield, a flower, that is random and rare, people will trade it, and ebay gold for it.

Regarding better quest rewards, they tried to do this with Sorrow's Furnace and Tombs, by making those weapons very powerful compared to golds, and it worked for a while, but of course it didn't last, and now all those greens are worthless.

I hope you're not complaining about not having bling yourself. They added collectors and 1.5k armour for a reason. Everyone does have access to the best gear for a nominal amount of farming. That should have destroyed the economy before the game ever began, but it didn't. Your argument is naïve.

xiao1985 · Nov 21, 2006, 05:01 AM // 05:01

/not signed

i did not farm in NF and in noob island i made 10k... at docks i got myself AL 70 sunspear armour...

you don't need to farm to get top stat items... weapons?! collector, they are even cheaper than craftor

awhile ago, i got myself ancient 10k devish female armour... i was rather happy... and i feel delighted whenever i look at her, because i worked HARD for that armour... if i got it when i reached level 14 after doing a quest called "the eternal forgemaster" as a quest reward, i will NOT cherish it as much...

edit: though i have to say, quest reward is kinda broken... nowdays i do reward for the lore purposes, not for exp/gold purposes...

arcanemacabre · Nov 21, 2006, 05:30 AM // 05:30

The main issue that I think we can all agree on (or most, at least), is the economy needs work - it simply doesn't function as well as we would all like. I think there are two main reasons for this: 1) eBay gold farmers & 2) the fact that some items have fixed prices (like armor), while others are player controlled.

Fixing the eBay problem is hard work. I don't think anyone has a definitive solution to that.

The other issue, of fixed price items and player-controlled priced items, could have a solution. The problem here, is that no matter how much gold is in the game, causing inflation, the fixed price items remain, well, static. The player 'income' in general is also static, unchanging.

Now, this is the purpose of gold sinks, and most of the gold sinks are the fixed price items. These are good for the economy. This means the constant flow of generated currency is being constantly taken back out of the game - thus 'gold sink'.

Unfortunately, this also means that player-to-player trading is bad for the economy. The more of this that happens, the more that the constantly generated currency remains in the game, only to switch hands. This causes more and more money to pour in, with few outlets.

Solution: Add more outlets - add more gold sinks. We need NPC traders for everything in the game. People need to be able to purchase item skins, mods, inscriptions, everything. This way the economy will still be player-controlled, just not directly, and not solely by WTSellers.

DIH49 · Nov 21, 2006, 05:40 AM // 05:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Not A Fifty Five

Yup. Except you'd actually do it with other people as opposed to sitting in a bunch of trolsl by yourself. Which is a step forward to cooperative play like GW was meant for.

Nah, people would just do it with Heroes. There's no good reason to PvE quest farm with real people.

Not A Fifty Five · Nov 21, 2006, 07:07 AM // 07:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by DIH49

Nah, people would just do it with Heroes. There's no good reason to PvE quest farm with real people.

Try doing masters quests (not missions) or defend quests in tyria with heroes. You could but you wouldnt if you didn't have to.

ValidusMonachus · Nov 21, 2006, 07:47 AM // 07:47

Play PvP then. You get tons of free items there.